Yasmani Grandal Chicago White Sox

Age: 32 (November 08, 1988) | 6' 1" | 235lbs. | Bats: Both C-32 1B-6 DH-7 PH-21
LAD NL 2017 129 438 50 108 40 130 27 0 22 58 0 1 .247 .308 .459 8 27 .298 44/16/40 11 11
LAD NL 2018 140 440 65 106 72 124 23 2 24 68 2 1 .241 .349 .466 14 24 .278 41/17/42 15 15
MIL NL 2019 153 513 79 126 109 139 26 2 28 77 5 1 .246 .380 .468 17 22 .279 39/23/38 17 17
CHW AL 2020 46 161 27 37 30 58 7 0 8 27 0 0 .230 .351 .422 15 30 .299 36/23/41 13 13
CHW AL 2021 63 181 42 34 60 64 3 0 14 38 0 0 .188 .388 .436 24 26 .189 43/16/41 4 5
Career 10yrs 988 3135 443 744 547 895 146 7 163 481 11 7 .237 .351 .444 15 24 .276 n/a
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The final 2012 bid limits that were posted for this player: PK 5x5: $2 MF 5x5: $3 AP 4x4: $2
Alex Patton Alex
Dec 15 '12
My implication is that players may take their regular dose in the morning, but it spikes in the blood in the last morning. If the testers come in the late morning for a 1:35 start they may test positive, but if they come in the late afternoon for a 7pm start, the test may show high normal, which is not a positive.

Testosterone is a PED under the testing regime. The penalties are no different than steroids and other drugs classified as PEDs. The penalties for drugs of abuse/recreation are different.

Given the likelihood of a player appeal if MLB misnames the drug in question, I'm sure they are announcing the actual drug found on the test. For Braun it was synthetic testosterone. For the others they've just said testosterone. If it had been Ben Johnson's old stanozolol they would have announced that.
Eugene Freedman EugeneFreed
Nov 12 '12
Well with the regular joe prescription testosterone I am familiar with you have to take it daily. Such versions of testosterone obviously get cleared daily and is so efficient that the doctor insists on making appointments at similar times of the day for the blood draw.

I was thinking that such failed MLB tests are because:
1. the player is taking real high doses on a regular basis
2. the player is taking real high doses at random times, which seems pointless, and got caught
3. the player is taking some other form that lasts longer (anabolics?)

One question I have had is what the difference between anabolic steroids and testosterone? Anabolics lead to protein synthesis and thus provide muscle mass and faster repair. Testosterone can do the same thing and I understand anabolics lead to high testosterone.

I wonder what the difference is for when MLB suspends a player for PEDs vs high testosterone? I also wonder if MLB would start labeling these events as high testosterone to get away from the PED or steroid nomenclature and thus negative connotation.
Doctor G DoctorG
Nov 12 '12
I guess one question is, how long do the effects last? Because, if you have to dose every 2-3 days because it clears your system, does that also mean that the effects are that fleeting as well?

Even with careful daily self-testing to avoid testing positive, there has to be an initial spike after dosage. And, with players' tests being randomized, one would have to image that it's still possible to be caught.

For the profession I represent, which has mandatory, random testing for drugs of abuse as well as a list of prohibited prescription and OTC medicines 48 hours prior to a shift, if the testers arrive and you are in the building, you may not leave until you have provided your sample. If a player has just dosed, and the protocols are similar, they are definitely going to test positive.
Eugene Freedman EugeneFreed
Nov 11 '12
Fascinating. This thread points to the strong likelihood that many, if not most, professional athletes are taking testosterone in carefully measured doses. Seems to me a reporter could get a major story out of this with just a few phone calls.
Alex Patton Alex
Nov 11 '12
OK what the heck, I'll admit it. I am currently on testosterone therapy. I was feeling very lethargic and had a very somber outlook (not depression though). Turns out these are signs of low testosterone. I was near the low end Rotoman states below. I started therapy and raised my testosterone about 2-fold, so still within normal range, and have felt great ever since. Migraines have also diminished. Doctor has me make appointments at the same time of the day because testosterone levels vary, as Rotoman mentions, throughout the day, and for comparable data blood should be drawn at the same time of day. I have a high deductible insurance plan through my employer and while my Dr. appointment costs about $100 (before deductible reached), the testosterone blood test costs me about $40. So indeed these guys can afford it.

Can somebody forward me pattonanco's HIPAA policy?
Doctor G DoctorG
Nov 10 '12
The reason for the high threshold is because testosterone levels fluctuate during the day, and vary greatly from person to person. I took the following from the Livestrong site, just for kicks:

According to an article in "The New York Times," the existence of testosterone, a male hormone consisting of natural steroids, was first discovered in 1935. Testosterone levels in most men average between 260 nanograms and 1,000 nanograms per deciliter of blood plasma. But that measurement is not constant. Testosterone surges and ebbs not only over the course of a man's lifetime, but over the course of a 24-hour day as well. Levels are vulnerable to both Mother Nature and normal life events.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/302085-how-does-testosterone-vary-during-the-day/#ixzz2Bmtjuspc
Peter Kreutzer Rotoman
Nov 9 '12
My guess is that the testosterone test is an "idiot" test ... kind of like the alcohol screening on a work physical scheduled more than a few hours out.

It would not shock me to discover that a lot of pro athletes were taking testosterone at what real dopers call "homeopathic" dosages ... the ratio has to be really screwed up (I think it's 6:1) before you fail the test, which means that 2x or 3x dosages above natural production won't DQ you. Considering what the annual salary is for an MLB player, I'd say you'd have to be able to find a Dr/lab to check your levels regularly and make sure you're not overdoing it. Not doing so is like a multi-million dollar contract NFL player going into certain night clubs without a bodyguard, or driving drunk instead of having a limo take you out on the town - penny wise and pound foolish.
Phil Ponebshek Texpope
Nov 9 '12
The testosterone ratio that triggers a positive test is supposedly so high that it never occurs normally. A positive also leads to a second test on a backup sample, to rule out lab error or tainting. I'm sure the system isn't perfect, but we haven't seen too many false positives.
Peter Kreutzer Rotoman
Nov 9 '12
Your response echoes my initial reaction too. He really had nothing standing between him and the starting job but time, and that time came and now it is his. I did not hear when the test was administered though, which would be interesting. It is just too bad that such a young star falls into this already.

Also, does anyone know if it is is simply high testosterone that is the concern or evidence of something synthetic? Normal T levels can vary widely. Maybe his levels took a jump from a previous test that may have provided some sort of baseline? Although apparently, he did admit he is responsible for what he puts into his body and apologized, suggesting he knew what he was doing.

I guess I will treat my $5 Grandal as a weak second catcher position for the first third of the season.
Doctor G DoctorG
Nov 9 '12